tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9555343.post458837488281188430..comments2023-08-28T03:21:40.351-07:00Comments on To all the world...: What will the Episcopal Church look like in 2030?Robert S. Mundayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07377574491812912442noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9555343.post-83104458620108674562012-03-18T02:57:55.986-07:002012-03-18T02:57:55.986-07:00As I read through the posts, I am still saddened T...As I read through the posts, I am still saddened That Jesus has been so marginalized by all sides. He waits quietly in the corner waiting for us to get back to going into the world preaching the Gospel. I only pray that we shall.Fr. Glenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01015059157862307916noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9555343.post-78673793896484359072012-02-17T06:28:40.514-08:002012-02-17T06:28:40.514-08:00I give you bonus points for using the word "e...I give you bonus points for using the word "eschaton"!Anglican Beach Partyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04775953413487218314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9555343.post-61855788477605631302012-02-16T21:07:39.738-08:002012-02-16T21:07:39.738-08:00Thank you, Fr. Richmond. I appreciate your concer...Thank you, Fr. Richmond. I appreciate your concern, which is one of mine also. I know clergy in outlying parishes in the Diocese of Chicago who say that they feel very much alone. And parishes in what is now the Diocese of Quincy are even farther away. <br /><br />I don't know if you were living in the Peoria area back when residents of Western Illinois coined the name "Forgottonia" to express their feelings that they had been forgotten by Illinois state government. There is even a Wikipedia article about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forgottonia <br /><br />The area that is the Diocese of Quincy has felt neglected in many ways for most of its history.Robert S. Mundayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07377574491812912442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9555343.post-24805973852385572352012-02-16T11:45:22.501-08:002012-02-16T11:45:22.501-08:00Bishop Martins, thank you for that clarification. ...Bishop Martins, thank you for that clarification. It explains a great deal.Robert S. Mundayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07377574491812912442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9555343.post-15900321703943617952012-02-16T10:15:58.241-08:002012-02-16T10:15:58.241-08:00I am a non-parochial priest, resident in Springfie...I am a non-parochial priest, resident in Springfield but living in Quincy. Quincy, whether with or without the parishes that split off, was--and would be--a marginal diocese, at best, in terms of finances. I know that money is not everything, but Q. is a diocese that is minimally sustainable. Which is too bad, truly. As I understand it, it would take less time, and Q. folks would be in limbo for a shorter period of time, if they joined with Chicago--Chicago being the modern remnant, if you will, of the Diocese of IL. Merging with, or being absorbed by, other surrounding dioceses would take (?) three years, I think. There are serious questions about how long Q. can or could hang on, even if ECUSA won the legal battles.<br /><br />There could be issues with Chicago, of course, but they would be primarily the same issues that affect parishes *outside* Chicago and the collar counties, i.e., fears of being forgotten or ignored, and without a huge focus on other matters theological. That, of course, is my opinion and/or conjecture.<br /><br />John RichmondJohn Richmondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13587302719107504726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9555343.post-41838223940283678002012-02-16T05:55:31.921-08:002012-02-16T05:55:31.921-08:00I am told (indirectly) that one of the reasons Qui...I am told (indirectly) that one of the reasons Quincy has looked toward Chicago is based on the legal opinion from the PB's Chancellor that Chicago is the successor to the original Diocese of Illinois (questionable, since that diocese gave birth to the three--Quincy, Springfield, & Chicago--simultaneously). Hence, Quincy can "go back" without the approval of General Convention. For financial reasons, time is of the essence, apparently. Another factor may be that I have made it clear that Springfield has no interest in being a party to property litigation.Bishop Daniel Martinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18341528414941408086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9555343.post-78594249069683663702012-02-15T21:10:06.339-08:002012-02-15T21:10:06.339-08:00Bishop Martins: I want to hasten to make clear tha...Bishop Martins: I want to hasten to make clear that I do not think the demise of the Diocese of Springfield is imminent. I was making a guess as to why the current leadership in TEC Quincy would prefer to seek a merger with Chicago rather than Springfield. I am guessing that that THEY may see it that way. As I said in my post, I think Quincy should have sought a merger with Springfield and am very disappointed that they did not do so.Robert S. Mundayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07377574491812912442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9555343.post-51017116579620228362012-02-15T20:13:39.978-08:002012-02-15T20:13:39.978-08:00Tregonsee, no PB--past, present, or future--has th...Tregonsee, no PB--past, present, or future--has the power to turn TEC around. Any "turnarounds" will be accomplished by and in dioceses. 815 isn't even marginal, it's irrelevant. And I will add the predictions of the demise of the Diocese of Springfield are premature. We face the usual list of challenges. But we're not out. We're not even down. Stay tuned.Bishop Daniel Martinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18341528414941408086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9555343.post-3742071844788540892012-02-15T19:52:42.057-08:002012-02-15T19:52:42.057-08:00A few years ago, I threw all the TEC numbers into ...A few years ago, I threw all the TEC numbers into a spreadsheet and came up with a prediction that in 2028, the diocese of Haiti would have more Episcopalians than the rest of TEC combined. It is already the largest diocese, and while the devastating earthquake has caused many difficulties for the Church there, it continues to grow.<br />In fact, if my model proves correct, TEC will fall to a membership of about 1/2 million at that time, and then, should Haiti continue to grow, TEC would reverse its decline- because the growing Haiti would become larger than the declining 100 dioceses in the US. Eventually, almost the entire Church would be located in Haiti, with a couple of other pockets in C America, S Carolina and a few metro areas in the US.TJ McMahonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09878728399945432911noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9555343.post-3368045465649769122012-02-15T15:08:49.740-08:002012-02-15T15:08:49.740-08:00Hi Robert
The rump TEC Diocese of Pittsburgh for...Hi Robert <br /><br />The rump TEC Diocese of Pittsburgh for a brief moment following realignment put up a trial balloon of junctioning with the Diocese of NWPA (Erie) which was quickly deflated by forces in both dioceses.The Rev Canon Dr David Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09878281384587956210noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9555343.post-15599499247779670452012-02-15T08:32:02.430-08:002012-02-15T08:32:02.430-08:00Dean Munday,
I do not think it is simply a questio...Dean Munday,<br />I do not think it is simply a question of whether TEC/ACC will be around in thirty years, but whether the other Continuing Episcopalian churches, or as my friend Robin calls them Alternative Episcopalian churches, will be around. I'm fairly certain that those establishments which are financially well-supported will be around. The Continuing/Alternative Episcopalians, I am much less certain of. The question I have is is will there be any difference between the two? I believe that the Continuing/Alternative Episcopalians have simply reset the snooze button and are perhaps fifteen years behind TEC in doctrinal and ecclesiological de-evolution. They have bought themselves some time, but not very much. And, to what end ultimately? Perhaps an eventual re-unification with TEC.RMBrutonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15017576806723146013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9555343.post-31193615911861302752012-02-15T06:27:10.300-08:002012-02-15T06:27:10.300-08:00I agree that the current model is unsustainable. ...I agree that the current model is unsustainable. What might be a better option might be to have at least some non-geographic dioceses. So, say, the dioceses of Albany, Springfield, and South Carolina could somehow join. Likewise the dioceses of Newark, New Hampshire and Los Angeles could link up. These types of alliances could create larger entites with some real strength both on the left and the right and give the Church more viability for the long term.David Vealehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04197901399664401750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9555343.post-70763810399032296262012-02-15T06:21:49.873-08:002012-02-15T06:21:49.873-08:00They could sack all of the current bishops, return...They could sack all of the current bishops, return to the 1928 Book of Common Prayer and see a turn around. But, of course, they won't. The hard left allied to the homosexual underground won't give up control so they will drive the Episcopal (whatever it now is) into oblivion.<br /><br />I became an Episcopalian as a teenager, a college freshman, and I thought it the center of what was best in the world. And while I continued to find some wonderful parishes and priests over the years, I was already in the process of disappointment and disillusionment by my mid twenties. Today I remain an Anglican, believing and practicing the faith I found in the historic prayer books but finding what was left of the American Church something that really needs to be put out of its misery as you would with a horse with a broken leg. May God have mercy on those poor souls still trapped therein.Canon Tallishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05182884929479435751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9555343.post-41695707437099508742012-02-15T05:53:36.794-08:002012-02-15T05:53:36.794-08:00As a cradle Episcopalian who left after 58 years, ...As a cradle Episcopalian who left after 58 years, sad but realistic news. Absent a true miracle, the next PB will probably be the last PB who will have it in their power to turn this around. Of course, that assumes the wisdom and will to do so. Even a few liberals have learned a lesson with ++KJS, but a true reformer appears to be unlikely, at best.Tregonseehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01705100658499499100noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9555343.post-66664750129975219112012-02-15T04:54:28.678-08:002012-02-15T04:54:28.678-08:00Will there be an Episcopal Church in the USA?Will there be an Episcopal Church in the USA?Dan Crawfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08091073644841770744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9555343.post-36833284897533374812012-02-15T04:20:28.656-08:002012-02-15T04:20:28.656-08:00It would make sense to junction North and South Da...It would make sense to junction North and South Dakota. I would worry about junction with Minnesota, however, given that diocese's penchant for neglect of rural & small town churches. But I suppose that would be inevitable and Minneapolis would become HQ in this region.TLF+https://www.blogger.com/profile/01650010433581488888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9555343.post-11056706234419017052012-02-15T00:20:49.432-08:002012-02-15T00:20:49.432-08:00"But the Episcopal Church took a hard left tu..."But the Episcopal Church took a hard left turn after I got on board"<br /><br />My! What was it you said/did?Sir Watkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02000106556898498656noreply@blogger.com